PLUME: Transitioning away from the Baron, a lot of people were surprised that - in light of all of your past troubles - your next picture was a studio film for Columbia, The Fisher King…

GILLIAM: That’s me being a…

PLUME: Trusting soul?

GILLIAM: No… I was so depressed after Munchausen that I didn’t know what I was going to do. I just really wanted to pack it in. I really had lost it completely. I got a Hollywood agent, and this script was sent to me. I read it and I thought it was wonderful, and I thought, “This is great. It’s really easy, it’s somebody else’s script, it’s in Hollywood…” All the things I said I’d never do. It was just four characters and no special effects, really, and I thought, “Why not?” I went out there, put my head in the lion’s mouth just to see what would happen. It was the only film I did without having contractual final cut. I said, “I’m just going to go out there with no net and do it and show them a thing or two.” So we made it, and we made it cheaply, and it was a big success, blah blah blah. For Columbia Tri-Star, for that year, it was the second-highest profitable film they had - Hook was the most profitable, despite everything about Hook. You’d think Bugsy was No. 2, but it wasn’t, because Bugsy cost twice as much as Fisher King and made only slightly more money at the box office - so we actually were No. 2 in profits.

PLUME: How much did that affect the naysayers left over from Brazil and Baron Munchausen?

GILLIAM: I really don’t ever quantify that, ever. I don’t pay attention. I don’t. There will always be people who just aren’t going to like me and what I do…

GILLIAM: Oh, A-list.

PLUME: How quickly they forget when it’s in their own interests…

GILLIAM: Oh yeah. They have no memory in Hollywood. What was funny about Fisher King was that we were number one, I think, for five weeks - but not enough people were going to the movies because there were two other things going on - the World Series and the Judge Clarence Thomas hearings. We sat there at number one for five weeks, and the studio people were just going crazy because we should’ve just been raking in huger amounts of money, but the public was sitting either watching baseball or the Supreme Court hearings. That was very funny. After having worked with the studio, there was a bad period where I got involved in development deals and wasted several years - just getting caught and thinking about being 50 years old and having been through an awful lot of s*** and too confused by all the possibilities being offered to me.

PLUME: And your tombstone would say “In Development”…

GILLIAM: Unfortunately, yeah. I got dragged in on several different projects that were all “go” pictures but didn’t go.

PLUME: Any ones you care to mention?

GILLIAM: There was A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court, there was A Tale of Two Cities with Mel Gibson, and there were a couple of others that I can’t seem to remember. At the same time, I was working with Richard LaGravenese writing The Defective Detective - all the time thinking that after the success of Fisher King it would be very easy to get the film made. Well, it didn’t prove to be so, and that project is still languishing. Somewhere around that time I started working on Don Quixote as well, and trying to get that going. So I was deep in many projects, but nothing was happening.

PLUME: This was around the time that your name was bandied about for Watchmen, wasn’t it?

GILLIAM: Yeah, I worked on that with Charles McKeown. That was right after Munchausen, and Joel Silver said, “I’ve got $40 million and The Watchmen.” He didn’t have $40 million. It had happened right after he made either Die Hard 2 or Hudson Hawk - a big expensive disaster - and I had just made Munchausen… and Joel is peddling this very expensive, very dark comic book with the guy who just made Munchausen.

PLUME: So he was trying to make two wrongs into a right…

GILLIAM: Yeah… Yeah. After Fisher King, Richard and I went to Columbia, wanting them to buy the option on a Philip K. Dick book - and they didn’t. I was really stung by the fact that - here are the two guys who just made them all this money, and all we want are the rights to a book to develop - and they wouldn’t do it. So I was completely confused about what you’re supposed to do to succeed in Hollywood.

PLUME: And they purposely make it that way, don’t they?

GILLIAM: Yeah, and I think the rules keep changing every day. I just thought, “Oh, this is crazy…” So lot of time was wasted there. I spent a long time on A Tale of Two Cities, and then Mel decided to direct his second film - he had already directed Man Without a Face - and he went off and made Braveheart. So Tale collapsed.

PLUME: Which of the films that you had in development were you most interested in making and most disappointed in the fact that they didn’t go anywhere?

GILLIAM: I was really keen on A Tale of Two Cities, because I think it’s a great story and I’ve always wanted to do Dickens. I thought it was an excellent script and a good take on the book, so that was disappointing. With A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court, I was never totally satisfied with the script, so that was one that I didn’t really miss. The biggest one was Defective Detective, which was my own script with Richard.

PLUME: And that’s the only one you’re really keeping alive, isn’t it?

GILLIAM: Yeah.

PLUME: Watchmen has passed by the wayside, hasn’t it?

GILLIAM: Yeah. In the end, I just felt Watchmen was unmakeable because - when you reduce it down to a 2-hour film - you’re taking so much textured detail out that it kind of loses what it’s about.

PLUME: Were you surprised by how many people latched onto you doing that as a marvelous thing?

GILLIAM: Yeah. Even now, it still keeps coming up all the time. In fact, after Fear and Loathing, I got a call from Larry Gordon - who has the rights to Watchmen - wanting to know if I was still interested, and I just said, “Naah. It’s gone on too long.” I just don’t think I can do it justice by reducing it down to a film. I keep thinking it would be better as a miniseries - a five-hour miniseries is what I think Watchmen should be.

PLUME: So, is the door closed on you doing it as a five-hour miniseries?

GILLIAM: Nobody’s ever suggested it as a five-hour miniseries except me. Nobody’s come forward and said, “What a great idea!”

PLUME: Well, by you turning it down, you’ve proven that you still haven’t gotten the hang of Hollywood - you’re supposed to say that yes - for the right money - you will turn into a bad 2-hour film…

GILLIAM: Yeah, I know. I’m a bit of a failure along those lines.

PLUME: You’ve got to try harder, Terry…

GILLIAM: There’s still time… There’s still time. Don’t give up hope on me yet.

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